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 Now on to fixing TvZ

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Plaid




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Join date : 2011-09-03

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PostSubject: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 2:59 pm

I asked you guys for advice on TvP recently, and that went astonishingly well (I'm winning virtually all ladder games vs. P now), so I figured next I'd like to work on TvZ. I'm not doing that poorly, but it could use a bit of work.

First, I'd like to know what things mean. I have a general idea, but I'd like to know what the proper responses to various bits of scouting information are. If they don't take the expo, that almost always means a 1base all-in roach rush, I think. Really early expo means they'll be on really low tech for a while, so I should either get tanks quickly and push early with them or 2rax if I haven't taken my gas yet when I notice. Or should I just 2rax even if I took the gas already?

My general build order vs. Z is standard Orbital opening with no add-on to the rax (keep pumping marines), get a fact at 100 gas, get a second rax, put a tech lab on the first one, get another refinery, put a reactor on the second, tech lab the factory, research stim and siege mode, get tank, and make marines from the 2 rax. I expand a bit later, once I have a fuller force and a tank or 2. I also push out once stim finishes (and start combat shield) and at some point start a third rax on which a reactor will be put (usually these happen at pretty much the same time as I start the expo). Once the expo is up, I get more gas from it and usually make a Starport and a second factory.

So, thoughts? One concern I have is that I have no idea how to incorporate hellions (blue flame or not) into my play, and they're really good vs. Zerg.
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Admin
Admin



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Age : 31
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PostSubject: Re: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 4:28 pm

If you don't see an expo it doesn't neccesarily mean a roach all-in.

If you get early gas, you can't really do a 2rax as efficiently, so if you plan on NOT doing a 2rax, don't do it.

Zerg going hatch-first does give you a window in which zerg is extremely veunerable to early aggression with hellion/marines, but if you let them drone up they'll have a huge lead on you. I wouldn't push for early tanks so much as more mobile, cheaper units like some marines and fake a bunker rush to try to force zerg to make zerglings, aka, not drones.

Your opening has potential, but if you're going to leap frog tanks toward the enemy's base, you cannot hesitate and MUST continue pushing forward, trying to pin and contain the zerg so you can just win. That being said be sure to keep up on your macro and don't get supply blocked, and more importantly if you do, don't build like 3 depots

As for reacting...
If you see zerg go for a standard pool before hatch, you don't have to worry much unless it's an earlier pool, then zerg might be going on the offensive (for some reason)
Later expansions are more like an investment for zerg to get ling speed to help protect expos.
If you see mutas (you probably will) DO NOT build a million missle turrets. 2 really well-placed turrets are way more cost-effective vs 5 for just one base.
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Zephron

Zephron


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Join date : 2011-09-03

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PostSubject: Re: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 4:48 pm

I'd help but I don't really play T or Z.

Frankly going air works really well versus Zerg since they have late anti-air, and detection.

You could go Banshee opening with some MMM or just Marine Tank and do loads of damage since they usually don't have an Evo Chamber right away.

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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 4:55 pm

Zephron wrote:
I'd help but I don't really play T or Z.

Frankly going air works really well versus Zerg since they have late anti-air, and detection.

You could go Banshee opening with some MMM or just Marine Tank and do loads of damage since they usually don't have an Evo Chamber right away.


Mutas, corrupters, overseers.
And matt, if you don't really play T or Z, why would you even comment here?
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Zephron

Zephron


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PostSubject: Re: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 5:37 pm

Admin wrote:
Zephron wrote:
I'd help but I don't really play T or Z.

Frankly going air works really well versus Zerg since they have late anti-air, and detection.

You could go Banshee opening with some MMM or just Marine Tank and do loads of damage since they usually don't have an Evo Chamber right away.


Mutas, corrupters, overseers.
And matt, if you don't really play T or Z, why would you even comment here?


Seriously, I said that beforehand and I was just suggesting something.

Also, I said EARLY game. You have Mutas, Corrupters, and Overseers at like 5-6 mins?

I'm well aware of what Zerg has as anti-air. Yes you also have spore crawlers, but not immediately, and usually Zerg delays building their evo chamber over speedling upgrades and roach warrens.
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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 6:24 pm

You can get lair and spire tech in time to stop banshee harass.
Not to mention all you need is 2 queens and a spore to fend off banshees with transfuses and whatnot
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Zephron

Zephron


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PostSubject: Re: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ EmptySat Sep 03, 2011 7:20 pm

Admin wrote:
You can get lair and spire tech in time to stop banshee harass.
Not to mention all you need is 2 queens and a spore to fend off banshees with transfuses and whatnot

It's up to you to stop scouting. If you don't let an overlord see your starport and double gas.
If you had 2 queens and a spore yes you can defend it, I'm just saying I'm doubtful anyone would be that prepared if you rush fast enough and reject scouting.
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PostSubject: Re: Now on to fixing TvZ   Now on to fixing TvZ Empty

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